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City Council
2002 Minutes & Agendas: Minutes - January 22, 2002 (Joint session with PC)

Minutes of the joint Centerville City Council/Planning Commission Work Session held Tuesday, January 22, 2002 at 7:05 p.m. in the Centerville City Council Chambers, 250 North Main Street, Centerville, Utah.


Mayor: Michael L. Deamer

Council Members:
David R. Gill
Brian Gold
R. Dean Layton
Debbie L. Randall
Nancy F. Smith


Chairman: Bruce Powell

Ken Averett
Steven Bateman
Paula Tew
Scott Vaterlaus


Brian Hulse
Grant Talbot


Steve H. Thacker, City Manager
Paul Allred, Community Development Director
Connie Larson, Recording Secretary


Jeff Taylor, Sherri Lindstrom, J. T. Clark, Eric Weeks, Mike Moyer


Mayor Deamer explained the purpose of the joint City Council/Planning Commission work session is to get a collective answer to questions pertaining to specific properties that will need to be dealt with in the near future.

Councilman Gold stated that previously when the Porter/Walton Nursery property was discussed, he declared a conflict of interest. The discussion this evening includes the entire 50-acre site. Councilman Gold stated that he spoke with Mike Moyer today, and he feels the discussion tonight will not deal particularly with the zoning of Mr. Moyer’s property and there should not be a conflict of interest.

Councilwoman Randall stated she owns the station that is on the north end of the 50-acre site and she might have a potential conflict of interest.

Steve Thacker, City Manager, explained the Village Plan as a whole is potentially subject to change by the new Council. However, tonight several very specific planning issues will be discussed so that developers of adjacent land can proceed with their plans and return to the Planning Commission for consideration.


Mr. Thacker explained that Mr. Clark owns property (5-6 acres) that fronts onto Main Street. Last year the City Council disagreed with the Planning Commission and amended the Master Street Plan to designate an east/west street from Main Street to 400 West. Staff’s recommendation is that the east/west street should be required and that it should be a public street. Staff are working on the exchange of land with Cedar Springs. Staff proposes the street be standard width.

The City Council and Planning Commission agreed there should be a connecting public street from Main Street to 400 West through the Clark property. The Planning Commission will discuss whether to require sidewalks on both sides, how wide, etc.


Steve Thacker said staff recommends the north/south connecting road to Walton Lane be a standard width public connecting street if there is no other street connecting the Village area with Porter Lane.

Councilwoman Smith asked why it is important for the street to be public rather than private. Mr. Thacker replied it should be a public street because it is the only north/south connection. A private road would be for people whose only destination is within the PUD. There will also be a pedestrian walkway next to this road.

The City Council and Planning Commission agreed the north/south connection should be a public road, but that curb and gutter will not be required at this time on the west side of the street because there is not enough width at this time to allow a full-width public street.

Mr. Thacker reported if the City could acquire the land on the west side of Cedar Springs, it is possible there could be a property exchange. The City Council and Planning Commission agreed it would be better if Cedar Springs relocated their vehicle storage area onto existing property.


Steve Thacker said the most recent idea is a two to three-acre neighborhood park to serve the southwest area of the city on the south side of Porter Lane. Ron Trump owns five to six acres which he is not willing to sell, but he is willing to trade two to three acres for building inventory at another location. There is also the possibility of leaving the creek channel open on the south side of Porter Lane and developing a pathway along the creek. Mr. Carlson has received concept plan approval and will be coming to the Planning Commission for preliminary site plan approval for five lots on 1.44 acres. Staff agrees the Carlson property is their preferred location for a parkway. However, the challenge is if the City can purchase the property without an extraordinary cost to the taxpayers. The possibility of a land trade has been discussed with Mr. Carlson, but he would expect acreage equivalent to what he has now, plus the City would have to pay the infrastructure costs.

Councilwoman Smith explained the City Council has had discussion about forming a fund-raising committee to preserve the Carlson property because of the old Bamberger Station, as it is a part of the historical culture of Centerville. Individuals have come forward stating they would be interested in helping the City purchase the property. The Eccles Foundation typically funds ten percent of projects like this. Councilman Gold questioned whether the Eccles Foundation would actually contribute for the property since the station is no longer standing. Mayor Deamer explained in the final analysis the City may not be able to raise as much money as it would like, and the taxpayers would be left with the largest part of the bill. Councilman Gill asked how much money would need to be raised. Mr. Thacker replied he expects the appraisal value would be $250,000 to $300,000. Raw land would cost about $150,000 for 1.5 acres.

Councilman Gold stated he is opposed to the location of the parkway because it serves only a small group of citizens. He would like to have a linear park in the center of the nursery property. Councilwoman Smith explained every park serves a small group of citizens, and this park would connect to another park and would be easily accessible by the citizens. Steven Bateman asked Mr. Thacker why he feels the Carlson property is the best location for the parkway. Mr. Thacker stated that setting aside cost, he would prefer this location. Paul Allred, Community Development Director, stated he is in favor of the proposed location for the parkway. He said he has seen a similar open space in Sandy that is very attractive in the old section of Sandy. Mr. Allred said a parkway for connecting the entire Village site would attract people from all over the city. Mr. Bateman stated the Planning Commission voted to approve the preliminary development proposal of Mr. Carlson’s property in order to help force a decision on the property.

Sherri Lindstrom said the reason the parkway would be better on the Carlson property is because this would better connect the 50 acres with the neighborhoods. Councilwoman Randall stated it is important to keep the parkway as far to the east as possible to keep it from becoming just a village park.

Councilman Gold expressed concern that the City Council is setting a precedent that the City is willing to purchase building lots and turn them into parks. Councilwoman Smith said the citizens have stated they are willing to help purchase property for a park. Chairman Powell questioned if a linear park would be used. Councilman Layton said he believes the idea of a linear park and green space are possible. Paula Tew stated she believes the linear park will increase the accessibility to the Village Center. Steven Bateman said if the City is not committed to the plan associated with the Village concept, other than to have a park in that geographic location, then it is not a sound thing to do.

Councilman Gold stated the newly elected City officials said they do not want higher density. The northern portion of the Village Center will not go forward unless it is high-density. If there is a Village Center, there must be a certain amount of density. Steven Bateman said people will not use a parkway unless it leads from one thing to another. Councilman Gold stated he would like a park but it is not fair to the taxpayer to pay for a park that will only benefit a few citizens. He also said there is the assumption the grant money can be collected but as of right now, the money is not there. The City would be paying building lot prices for a park. Ken Averett stated the City is raising the bar when it comes to purchasing other parcels of property in that area.

Steve Thacker said Mr. Carlson would like to start building two or three homes this spring. If land is going to be purchased on the south end of the nursery, it must be done quickly. The City could then install the infrastructure for the lots that would be traded and then the City would be a mini developer. If this did not happen, it would be an asset that is marketable and would buy time to get the grants and donations. Councilwoman Smith stated it is irresponsible of the City Council to not have a park in the southern area of the city. She also said the City Council and Planning Commission voted on the concept plan of the Village Center as it now stands, which includes a linear park at this location.

Mayor Deamer stated the parkway ties in with the Village Concept Plan and he supports the idea of a park in the southwest area. He said he is not opposed to the parkway as proposed but there are still misconceptions on what needs to be done with the entire Village Center. Mayor Deamer said financing is an important aspect and he is not opposed to charitable contributions, but he is skeptical about how much money will actually be received. He is opposed to high-density housing and the concept of a gathering place, but he is in favor of a library and the Rodgers Memorial Theater. Mayor Deamer said the City Council and Planning Commission need to decide if the Village Plan will be pursued as currently outlined in the General Plan. He said the level of housing density must be decided for the Village Center so the people who want to build on the property know what is acceptable. Mayor Deamer stated he is not opposed to the parkway but financing is an important aspect.

Steve Thacker said there is the possibility of facilitating a trade with Mr. Carlson contingent on the following:

1. Nursery property must be purchased soon.

2. Street planning must be completed soon.

3. If donated funds can be raised, this could pay for the infrastructure. If the money is not raised, the land could be sold.

Steven Bateman asked if Mr. Carlson is willing to sell his property at a fair market value? He said he is in favor of the parkway concept only if the Village Center concept proceeds in a reasonable fashion. Councilman Gold said if the property is purchased, there will be the expectation that a park will be there. Steve Thacker said Mr. Carlson would like to start building homes within a few months. Steven Bateman said Mr. Carlson has a preliminary plan ready for approval by the Planning Commission and there is no reason to disapprove it.

Ken Averett asked if the City is willing to exercise imminent domain? Mayor Deamer stated fair market value would still have to be paid for imminent domain.

Councilman Gold said the last time the citizens were asked in a referendum if they were willing to pay taxpayer money for parks, the majority said "no." Councilwoman Smith reported the recent Centerville City survey states shows that 34.5 percent of the citizens favor more park land if donated, 28.4 percent favor more open space with taxes if necessary, while only 19.5% feel we have sufficient open space.

Mayor Deamer said the City Council and Planning Commission are speculating on what the fair market value of the property is, and if the property owner is willing to trade or sell property. He said we need to have more information on the value of the land and what the property owner is willing to do with his property. He said he will visit with the property owner and return with more definitive alternatives.

Ken Averett stated a current appraisal of the Trump, Porter Nursery, and parkway properties should be done before any decisions are made.

Councilwoman Smith made a motion to have an appraisal completed on the Trump property, parkway property, and Porter Nursery property. Councilman Layton seconded the motion, which was passed by unanimous vote (5-0).


Mayor Deamer stated the City Council and Planning Commission need to decide where they are on the Village Center Plan. He said he is opposed to the high-density aspect of the Village Center and asked if the General Plan should be re-examined? Mayor Deamer said he has tried to talk with the developer but has not been able to. He said he talked with John Hepworth and his architect about what they want to develop on their part of the land. Mr. Hepworth wants 320 dwelling units on the north end. Mayor Deamer said he knows what the developer wants but not what the Steering Committee wants. Paula Tew suggested the newly elected officials meet with the Village Steering Committee.

Jeff Taylor, Perry Homes, explained that at the last City Council meeting, the Council said it is not willing to give eight units or more per acre. He said Perry Homes would like to know what is feasible and what is not. Steve Thacker stated the City Council is not willing to enter into a pre-development agreement where land is purchased on the south end with a guarantee of eight to ten units per acre.

Steve Thacker said the City Council previously directed staff to write a Residential Special District (RSD) Ordinance. When it is adopted, it will allow a developer to bring a detailed development plan to the Planning Commission and they will decide if the proposal is in harmony with the Master Plan. If the RSD Ordinance is approved, it can be used for the nursery property.

Mayor Deamer said Perry Homes has already stated they are not interested in single-family units. Mr. Taylor said he has never heard a specific density that has been assigned in the Village Plan. He also said the density issue is still vague and open ended.

Councilman Gill read from Page 9 of the Village Center Plan that states "single-family average lot is 8,500 square feet, and single-family small lot is between 4,000 - 5,000 square feet."

Mayor Deamer stated although a consensus was not reached, more thought needs to be given on the issues discussed, with density being the primary issue.

The meeting was adjourned at 9:20 p.m.


Marilyn Holje, City Recorder
Connie Larson, Recording Secretary

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